like everything just changed. Like I didn't even care about any of that anymore because it all became about, this little

Yeah. We've known each other for quite a while. Originally we met each other, I think, through her ex partner and yeah, and then we didn't talk for a little while there, but then I opened Howl at the Moon, and we reconnected, and this place is really conducive to Leona's sobriety because she's in recovery too she's been coming here a lot since we opened the place and We rekindled our friendship and i'm really glad about that.

And yeah, she loves to come here and sing karaoke and We talked a little bit about about her recovery and I thought that she'd make an awesome guest For a podcast to share a little bit about her story and where she's come from and where she 

is now. So I'm certainly excited. Leona, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and  tell our listeners, like what types of things are you involved with here in Thunder Bay, Ontario? 

Okay, so my name is Leona.  I'm from North Spirit Lake First Nation. It's one of those flying communities up north. I came here probably in 2004,  and I've been here since I graduated high school. I just I don't know, Thunder Bay just grew on me because  there's definitely a whole lot more resources here than there is in my northern community.

Okay.  Thunder Bay is a real way of roping people in, eh? Yeah. Same thing happened to me when I came here in 2009. I was only coming for a short time and here I am, like, what, 14, 15 years later, I'm still here.  

So I get it. It's like Northern BC as well. We have smaller communities all over, but there's always seems to be a central hub that we all tend to escape to.

And ours was Prince George. Yeah, that's right. Thunder Bay just seems to be like the New York for everything. It really is. It's like the hub, the New York of the North for sure. So    you grew up on a First Nations community, an Indigenous community. Tell me about life there from the ages of five and under from what you can remember.

What stands out? 

My parents separated when I was about six, I think.  And we bounced back and forth between my mom and my dad. Me and my sister.  I don't remember my brother too much being in the picture. I think somebody, or from what he told me, he said that other family members stepped in to take care of him. 

But me and my sister were more closer in age, so we stayed together  in everything that we did. With my mom it was like I don't know, it was pretty bad because She just She shut herself out from everything. Stayed in her room and,   we had to fend for ourselves.

We're maybe like, I think I was around 10, so she's 3 years younger than I was.  And a lot of the times I just remember being hungry a lot  and cold, because we're in a remote community and we didn't have anybody to bring us wood or anything like that because we didn't I don't think we even had power yet at the time, so we were using candles and like stoves.

There was definitely no cell phones. No, 

definitely not. Just 

way out in the boonies. 

Yep, landlines back then.  I'm curious to know, I've been to several First Nations communities. I did time up in Nunavut as well, I lived there for five years.  What are some of the challenges in some of these communities that you know, and what was your community like?

How was it accessible? How did people get up there? How did stuff get up there? Was it drivable? 

It's like a flying community. But it's you can drive in on the winter road. Okay. During the winter. Okay. To this day even, like it's still. I know there's been talk about an  all season road, but I don't know what's gonna come of that, but right now it's just flying and winter road only.

 And so ages between 1 and 10, at age 6, you shared a little bit about age 6. What are some strong memories that really stand out or stories that stand out during that time?  

I just remember being angry a lot. There was something that happened when I was around six, I think.

One of the I had this uncle who I, thought the world of. And, he he touched me inappropriately. And cause I used to take pride in being a little girl and everything, right? At that, around that time, but after he did that to me,  I like turned into a tomboy, because I didn't want him to look at me that way.

And, but I remember telling my dad first. Before any of that happened, and he told me not to make stuff up  about family like that. I just decided just to change who I was, to protect myself, and then from then on, I was just angry all the time, mostly at my dad, for not protecting me, for not believing me.

And,  I just started to rebel, using alcohol myself to numb the pain that I felt, because  I figured that's probably why my parents used alcohol too because they're going through their own pain and really understand why. They had to use it to numb their pain until I, started doing it myself, and I was like, okay, I get it now, and it felt good at the time, to have that  as an outlet because in a community that remote, you don't have anything else to turn to. Even today there's still a lot of addictions and everything going on there because. There's not enough resources up there, or  even people just don't want it,  I don't think. 

But I think that's the difference between  me and some people who are still there, because as soon as I was of age, I just,  I had to leave, I already saw that there was nothing there for me, so I needed to leave. 

First of all, thank you for sharing that.  I can't imagine what that would be like to go through an event like that, because it is transformational in a sense.

You mentioned that you turned more so into a tomboy mentality.   I'm curious to know what are, Some other ways you coped with this, because I find, like alcohol might be one layer, what were some other layers that you did during that time to cope with this? And yeah.

I didn't really have any other ways to cope. I just remember being angry a lot of the time. And, My friends and I used to just cause trouble in the community a lot.  We didn't have anything else to do and the cops that were there at the time were I don't know. They must have been bored too, they just went along with it, almost like playing with us, I don't know.  It was fun.  

 What's one kind of, like memory that stands out or story that stands out when it came to doing just like going against the law kind of thing. 

With the cops that I mentioned they actually played Real life game of cops and robbers of this.

Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, 

and it's not in the reserve, right? Yeah, we didn't have streetlights or anything. So we're like already  Like pitch black and everything and they were just like they'd show up out of nowhere  And just high beam us with our with their flashlights or their vehicle or whatever they're chasing us in  

That's just their way of saying, we know what's going on, 

yeah guess I can't say it was all bad in the race because we did have times like that where we got to play an actual game with the police I don't think there's many cops that would do that with a bunch of teenagers.

No.  

Definitely, especially not in Thunder Bay. 

Nope. 

I find that's one of the things I'm seeing more and more of, is the authorities, or that That that cop oversight in each of these communities is they're playing more of a  community based model like integrating into the community.

Oh, how can we get involved during this festivity? How can we get involved in the summertime, or vaccinating dogs? Okay, how can we get involved with that? So I think over the years I've seen, just based on what I've seen a change on that front. You mentioned that in the first nations community that people might be reluctant to change or they don't want to change. 

 I was curious to know if you can elaborate on that a little bit. I 

only say that because we had  an election recently and 

I 

think there was a lot of people who are  really hoping, for change, with our current leadership and everything. Okay. And the same leadership that won the last election won this election again.

And Didn't go so well in the community. I don't think because there was fires that were started and stuff. Okay 

okay and your dad when you went forward to your dad and you said hey This is this happened to me You know this happened to me and he brushed it off and he said something along the lines of oh don't make anything Up, don't be making up these stories I'm curious to know more about your dad and your mom like what kind of stuff  Did they go through that maybe would have, resulted in an answer like that?

I don't know too much about what my dad went through because he never talked about anything like that.  But I know he was very I don't know closed up, he didn't express his feelings. love or anything like that a lot.  And when, if he did he'd be there, that's okay. 

And I remember  he'd always say things like, don't cry.  Shows are weak, I grew up a lot. Because I had now I can probably cry. Watching Titanic or something. Cause I've done that. I cried during 

Titanic too. We were just talking about Titanic today. We were. That's so funny.

There's a lady out there that survived three ships and she was, she, one of the ships was the Titanic. So bizarre. 

But yeah, I had easy for me today to be able to express emotion, to feel emotional  and stuff, but growing up it was hard because even when we lost people my grandparents and my aunties  and almost my whole dad's family.

Yeah, pretty much my dad's side of the family is all gone, except for one aunt.  So there was, like, a lot of funerals and stuff, 

And that was growing up? Yeah. Okay. I 

remember, I remember feeling like, what's wrong with me? Like My family's dying, and  I'm not even, everyone was all emotional around me, and I just They're like  I felt so robotic, like I couldn't, I wanted to cry, but I couldn't cry.

Gotcha. 

I was just like 

But you don't struggle with that now, is what you're saying. You've done the work where you can feel your emotions and yeah. Yeah, that's the side of you that I see. I can tell that you're, you're full of life and full of emotion now, and that came through a lot of hard work, I'm sure.

Yeah. 

Yeah. So now okay, you got this tomboy mentality. You, first of all, you had this event happen, okay, this catastrophic event. You kind of mold yourself into this tomboy mentality. And you're moving on, you're coping with days to numb the pain or forget about what happened. What happened next?

What happened with the whole you leave home around 18, correct? What enticed you to do that? And where did you go from there?  

As a, like a teenager, all of us you'd hear that, you'd hear this in almost every community about how  we have to leave home young, right? Because we have to go out for school.

Gotcha. I think one of the first places that I went to when I left home was I think Sulaco. Okay. Yeah.  And then Ear Falls. I think it was just those two places, but.  I kept getting sent home, because it was bad. 

Because they  give every student three chances. And they give you the boot send you back home. After Silicon, I think I came here.  I think I might have been around 15 or 16 when I first decided that I needed help, because I was struggling with my addictions. And I realized like, because there was other people around me who were.  That went for treatment and stuff and I could see like a difference in them.

Yeah.  And I was like, I want that too. I want help.  But I was like 15, 16, right? So I went to my band consul and I'm like, I need help. Like I can't stop drinking and  I just, I really want to stop. So instead of sending me to treatment like I thought they would, they sent me to a children's center instead.

I got locked up for a year.  Over in, I think it was Sandy Lake,  was a children's center  for troubled youth or something.  So 

let me understand that just a little bit.  You came forward with a problem, like an alcohol, like a drinking problem or, but they sent you off to a, like another institution?

Like a facility of some sort. Okay. Guess for troubled youth. 

Okay. And was there like alcohol and stuff there as well? 

No, it was just like, I think that's just a place where they sent. Kids who had issues and stuff. 

Okay, were there resources there to help you work through your alcohol addiction?

They just dealt with all of us on the same level I guess you know, like we're from trouble, we're troubled youth from troubled homes. Sure. Okay, so they just I Don't know design programs for us to do throughout the day kept us busy and all that And 

Throughout the process, did you ever have counselor influence around you at all?

Whether it was, like, in Sioux Lookout or at the children's facility? Oh, yeah. I spent a 

lot of my youth going in and out of counseling because  it was, like, Some things that I went through Like people that were close to me and stuff, like committed suicide and all that. Wow. I think I was 15 when my best friend hung herself. 

And then I was 17 when my aunt hung herself, my aunt was close in age with me.  

So a lot of trauma at a young age. 

Yeah, so I just, I don't know I started to feel like that too like giving up. I was like, I just want to be where they are, yeah.  I just I don't know, just  lost myself in my addiction there for a while. Especially when I came here, I really got really bad into my alcoholism. 

How old were you, Leona, when you came to Thunder Bay? 

I was about 17, I think. 

17, okay. So you were still, you were young, and, Yeah, 

because after I finished the Children's Center, I came here.

Okay. And then what happened here? 

After I left the Children's Center, I wanted to go out for high school. Okay. And then I asked to go to Thunder Bay,  so they sent me here.  I had a few good years here where I was like, I went to that Dennis Franklin Cromartie High School.

And, There was a few times where I almost got kicked out because I wasn't because I was being bad.  But there was this lady that she was one of the first good influences in my life. Even to this day, when I see her it's really nice to see her. But she saw something in me that I didn't see in myself at the time.

Amazing. And she was like, I think you're just real troubled. You need help you need help finding your way and I'm gonna try and help you find your way, if you'll let me.  

Was that one of the staff members there, Leona? She was 

the guidance counselor. 

Yeah. 

For NNEC, I think at the time.

Now, did that end up being a bit of a turning point in your life then?  

Yeah I asked her for I asked her if she could help me get into a treatment center because I was still trying to get into a treatment center even though the first time I didn't get into a like you were screaming 

for that help, eh?

You've asked for it a few times. In, in no uncertain terms, you said, I need help with my drinking addiction and it must be frustrating when you're not getting that help that you're asking for. 

Yeah, cause when I got here after the Children's Center, I was really angry  because when I was in the Children's Center, that's when my best friend committed suicide, right?

And  she called me while I was in there and she was like, like crying.  And she was begging me to come home.  And I was like, I can't like I'm in a children's center, like I can't leave. And then I said, just give me some time. I'm gonna try and talk to them see if I could come home. And I remember I was begging them, something's wrong with my friend back home, and I think she's gonna do something, and I really need to get home.

But they just said there's nothing we can really do about that.  And then  All of a sudden we found out that, she ended her life and I just lost it. And then when I came here I was just, had all that pain inside me and I just drank and  

Using alcohol to numb out.

Yeah. 

To numb everything because I just didn't want to feel anything anymore, and there was a time I almost did die. Tom is the name of my my ex husband. He actually read about me in the paper  because was drinking by the DFC High School and what a group of people  and we all separated.

I don't know where everybody went, but  apparently I went staggering off on my own and the last thing I remember was like looking down at the ground and seeing my feet and I was walking. And then when I woke up I was in the hospital.  And I was just like freezing, like I couldn't stop shaking. I was like, holy shit, what the heck happened? 

And then I tried getting out of the hospital bed, and this nurse came over and pushed me back down. She's you need to stay in the bed.  She's here, drink, you're very dehydrated.  And then she's do you know what happened to you?  And I said, no, why am I so cold? What happened to me?

And then she told me that I guess I was like staggering along that creek by DFC. And I tried crossing it, and I fell through.  And, cell phones weren't really big at the time yet, but somebody happened to have one. Who was walking by and they saw me struggling trying to get out of the water, wow, 

yeah.  

And they phoned 9 1 1 and by the time the ambulance and the police or whatever came, I had already gone underneath. Oh, man. Yeah, so they, they said that or she told me that the firefighters were, like, looking for me under the ice. Wow. And they broke through and fished me out and they They had to revive me.

That's terrifying. Yeah, 

and I was like, what? And she's yeah, you, she's 

you died. You're lucky to be here.  

Yeah it's oh, that's crazy. 

Wow. Was that the moment that was like the moment like, okay, I better stop? all this and get help? 

No. 

Okay. What happened next then? What was like the moment or  yeah, the next moment that, that was catastrophic?

Because usually with, 

yeah, with experiences, talking about the bottom, right? Yeah. The bottom. When did I hit my bottom? 

Or even the events leading up to it? Like when was the next time? Whether it's your bottom or what, or an event in between that, that made you have this check again that, hey, maybe alcohol or whatever I'm doing is an issue.

I think it's when I unintentionally hurt somebody that I really loved, but she doesn't know that, that I, hurt her. That's It's like one of those things where, you can't  really tell this person that you did it because it would probably cause a lot of damage to them. 

So the only way you can  try and Deal with that is by changing like who you are, not being that person Who causes that kind of pain on to somebody else?  

I like that So How long, when did you sober up? Maybe take me to that time, please. Like, when, what did you do once you realized after that moment that, okay, these are the things I need to do, or this is a stepping stone into me being sober.

Yeah, after this event happened, because I felt like I wanted to tell her what happened, but I couldn't. To me the, what do you call it?  The solution was, okay, maybe this is my time to, to go hang myself too, right? Okay. Because I've always wanted, I've always had that mentality since I lost my best friend and my,  My my aunt, she was close to me in Asian.

We were really close. I was like, maybe I should just, off myself too and, I won't have to cause pain on anyone anymore. Yeah. And also, when I was thinking about, like, How I was going to do that. Okay, so what do I need? Where am I going to do it? That kind of I was planning. 

But then, I totally forgot that I had spoke with this guidance counselor and she had actually got me into the legal treatment center. We did an application. Okay. The detox people called me and told me that I needed to come in and stay there for four days or something before I go into treatment. 

When was this, Leon? 

In 2006. 

2006, okay. Yeah, 

so 

And at this point in time you're literally like you're suicidal. 

Yeah. Yeah. I was like I even told her, I said, you know what I don't want to do this anymore. I changed my mind. I give up. I don't want to.  I don't care anymore.

I don't 

want to go to treatment. I'm just done. 

And then she was like, she must have sensed something was wrong because she was like we have a bed here for you and we're not going to give up your bed and I think you should really, come here. We can help you. I know whatever it is that you're feeling right now, it's not gonna, you're not gonna feel like that, forever.

I'm getting 

emotional just listening to you because it's really powerful obviously that person could sense that you're having a really hard time and just really wanted to connect with you and try and help you. 

And I was just like, I don't care, just give up my bed I don't give a I don't give a shit, just trying to push her away and she's I'm gonna call you back.

In about a half hour, she said, but so I'm not gonna give up on you, she said, and I said you're wasting your time, just you can just leave me alone now,  but I was like going through whatever I was like, I was stuck in that mentality, right? And then a half hour later, I was starting to calm down a bit and I was like, who is this lady?

Like why is she so persistent on me coming to the detox? Like she don't even know me. Yeah,  

but it's true though. 

Then she did call back and she's like, how are you feeling now? 



No, I'm like, I don't know. I said, what do you want? I was like, why are you why are you so persistent?  She saved 

your life that day.

Yeah, she was like  

She's I just feel like you really you need to be here. She's there's like She's like I don't really you know go out of my way to if somebody doesn't want it, then we just we have to move on and to the people who do,  she's but she's I think you just need to come here. 

And I said, okay. So she sent the cab  and then I went there and I just it was like being in hell there because I had to face like everything, like all of my demons,  and, they were just taunting me you don't deserve to live you're trash just like all these things going through my head, and, like, why don't you just leave let's go finish our plan, just so many different little voices in my head that just, just. 

Really wanted me to fail, right? Just beating me down into the ground. I was just like And I couldn't turn it off, like how you can change your  Thoughts and make it positive like I couldn't do that. Like I had was just  I felt like I was just losing the battle But I just kept Focusing on okay, I just need to get the treatment, everything's gonna be okay there.

Like I feel like Everything will be okay there so The day finally came when I Think they sent a van to come and get me from DeLico So 

that was after four or five days of detox. Yeah, 

because they had to  I don't know, I think I had to go to the hospital too and they had to do their health check or something on me or whatever, so they cleared me. 

They were able to take you right from detox though to the hospital to treatment, though there was no delay in between? 

Yeah. 

And the reason I think that's important is because we've talked about that on on some of our on some of our shows in the past there where there's that gap, between detox and getting people into residential treatment programs.

Sometimes it's like weeks, even months. And it's just a recipe for disaster and relapse. So I'm really grateful that you were able to go directly from detox to treatment. I think that's the way it should be. 

Yeah. And I think when somebody like really wants that help, like they're.

There's, that, that helps available, there are people out there who will do almost anything to make sure that you're successful in what you're trying to do. 

That woman went out of her way, above and beyond, because I think a lot of times people wouldn't be that persistent, they just say, look, alright, you're not ready, I respect that and some people aren't ready, but for some reason that woman knew that that you were really At your wit's end.

And I'm grateful for that because you're still here with us today.  

 Oftentimes in life we need, if we don't get the direction from our home, we need someone in society to be like, Hey, try this path. And there was a moment, even in my life, I'm like, you know what, I've tried everything else.

Nothing worked. Let's go ahead and try this avenue. And that was my moment. Sounds like that was a very similar moment for you as well. What Was it about treatment? Tell me a little bit about treatment and what did you take away from that treatment program that you actually use today still?  

There's this thing I call my vision quest.

That's where it was born. Cause there's another lady I failed to mention going back to my high school days. Okay. There was the guidance counselor that helped me get into treatment, but there was this other lady there who was a school counselor. Okay. She'd come there probably a couple times a week and just, be available to whoever wanted to talk, right? 

But I didn't want to talk to her. My guidance counselor was like, You need to get upstairs right now and go talk to this lady.  Otherwise I'm sending your ass home. And I'm like  I was like, I don't want to do that. Just send me home. She's I'm not sending you home, so you need to get up there.

I was like, fine, whatever. So I went up there and I just sat there. And I was like, just for the record, I don't want to be here. And she's that's fine. You want to be here? You can just sit there and, not be here. Just do your thing. And I was like, okay. So we just sat there like in silence a lot of the time and she just like she really knew how to slowly crack a shell I guess?

Yeah. Cause eventually I did start to talk to her like slowly. I started to open up to her and  she was one of even to this day she's like my other mom, 

nice. She's 

Took me under her wing. She showed me, she exposed me to the culture and everything.  So it was because of her I knew a little bit about the culture.

So when I went to DeLico, they had a sweat lodge there. That was my first time  going into the sweat lodge, and I remember being really scared, because I don't like small, closed off spaces. Yeah. Or heat. Yeah. So it's oh, okay. Alright, when we went in there and I was like starting to freak out a bit because it was really dark and everyone was real close and I just sat there I was just really focused on my breathing and I was starting to panic. 

So I asked that sweat lodge conductor like hey, can I get out like I can't breathe and I think I'm about to spaz out  He's yeah, we're almost done the round. He said can I just make a suggestion? He said sure He said put a towel over your head and lay down try and find No, like the outer layer of the sweat lodge like there's cool air there.

Yeah So just put your face there. It's okay whoever was next to me knew that I was freaking out, so they kinda made room so I was able to lay down. And as soon as my head touched the ground,  it was like as if I don't know, like I was in a dream or something, cause all of a sudden I was like in a field, and I was like, am I dreaming?

And I seen this person way ahead in the distance. It's they were dancing or something. So I walked towards that person, and when that person turned around, it was actually me. And I was like, what the hell? I don't know how to dance like that. And  as soon as our eyes met.  That she stopped and pointed at something and then when I tried to look where she was pointing, like I woke up.

I was like, what the hell is that? I just felt all, baffled I guess. So after the sweat, I told that sweat lodge conductor what happened. And then he's you had a vision. He's you need to chase your vision. And I was like, what does that mean? And he's you need to chase your vision.

And I was like, okay.  And after that I just, I don't know, like I tried to listen to whatever my heart was telling me to do. It's okay, I did five weeks of I finished this treatment program at the legal, now what? So I was talking to the counselors there and they said there's this place called Crossroads you could go to, and at the time I was young, I was single, didn't have family or kids or nothing it was just me.

And I was like, yeah, why the heck not, I just got out of high school, I don't have a job, I don't even have a home I guess I'll go to Crossroads.  And I stayed there for 14 months.  And it was awesome because I just met like all kinds of women from like all different kinds of walks of life, right? 

And it was, that's where I found where I met Trudy. She was 

Okay yeah. 

She's my best friend to this day. And when I was there, that's when I tried to see what other resources were out there. Because while I was in DeLico, I met Ron Kanutzke for the first time there. 

Nice. Yeah, he was also a huge advocate for this space.

Yeah. Yeah, amazing guy. 

And he told me about he showed, he shared a story with us about, us being like a space. Like we have,  in order for a spider to make its web strong, it has to have, like, all these different lines to make it secure. If you have just that one line and that line gets cut, then you won't really have anything.

So he said, each of those lines are like  all of your resources, like AA and whatever helps you in your sobriety, he said, those are all your lines. So you need to have  as many supports as possible to, make your web strong. And that really stayed with me. 

Great advice from Ron, for sure.

Throughout my sobriety, so it's okay. What other resources can I access? I go to AA,  and I, I didn't really do too much karaoke at the time but I was, like, trying to, Think of all these other resources, right?  And I did go through a lot of resources. I went to anger management.

I did  grief and abandonment at the Badaban Healing Lodge. I did the grief workshops. I don't know, just whatever resources I saw out there, right? I was like, okay, is this going to help me? Maybe I should try it. So I did that.  And one of those resources was reconnecting with Ron at a healing circle, which he did at, At the Smith?

Yeah, at the 

Smith at the time. He's still 

doing it there at the Smith, by the way, he's still doing that on Monday nights, and he does that healing circle here as well at Health Moon on Sunday nights. 

Yeah, and that was a big part of my recovery. Recovery was that was a big thing for me and my husband, too, at the time.

He wasn't my husband yet at the time, but that was our thing when we were married, was that we'd try and help people reestablish their self identity, and that's what I was doing at that time.  So I was like, so what is re establishing self identity  and to us, I guess that's reconnecting with your culture, finding your name, your clan, your  spirit colors and your spirit helper. 

And that's when my vision quest was born. It's okay, so I need to re establish who I am.  And when I started accessing these resources, And I went to the Healing Circle. That's where I got my my spirit name. 

Amazing. 

Through Ron. Because I went up to him after one of our sessions. I didn't talk to him.

I went back into my, being awkward phase, right? I didn't, I just sat around there with my head down a lot of the time. And I'd say Pats, whenever he would come to me. But after a while, I started to open up. And I was just like, Blabbing away about, because he'd have topics or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He really tries to get the group  Involved, although it's certainly okay to pass too, but Ron really tries to be proactive and getting people to participate. 

Yeah I don't know I just felt like There was a connection there or something, because I felt like I needed to go up to him and say, Can you help me with my spirit name?

So I did, right? And I gave him tobacco, and he's I don't really do that anymore, he said, because I used to or something, he was saying.  But I feel like there's something about you he said, give me some time, and I'll get back to you. I said, okay.  And it was like I don't know, a few times after going there, he called me that one night.

He's I want to get Leona to the center of the circle, he was talking about, like, how I would be all quiet and, not talk or whatever,  and now they can't get me to shut up.  

Yeah,  that's that's quite the transformation. What 

yeah, he also had a flower pot or something and he said,  this represents you.

Yeah. Because you came. To us, like a seed. Nice. And then you blossomed.  Just like this flower, he said. He said, and that's your name. He said, Wabugunekwe, Blossoming Woman. 

Wow, that is so amazingly hard. Yeah, 

and I was just like, Wow! I'm Blossoming Woman! Yup, 

and you are, absolutely. superhero.  And that's you, that is totally you.

And a few things resonated with me as you were talking there and we were listening, I think what you said about reaching out and connecting with all the resources that are available I feel like that's so important in recovery, and it's something that that I tell people all the time when they come here to Howl at the Moon is that, when you're proactive in your recovery, you stand the best chance of success.

You have to take that recovery seriously and you have to really go after it and take it seriously and chase it, use all the resources and find out what works for you. 

Yeah. 

And the truth is what I've seen is that the people who are successful in their recovery or the most successful in their recovery are the people who are proactive and they do the work and they're teachable and They're willing to listen and you did that and that's amazing, and the other thing that really resonated with me too, something that I've seen with my Anishinabek brothers and sisters is that the importance of the reconnect to the culture to this, to their own spirituality to the language, to the land, all those things are really important in recovery.

So I, I just wanted to comment on that and say, thank you for sharing those things. 

Yeah. And even the analogy of the spider web. Ron's kind of comparison there oftentimes I, I look at it as a 10 legged table and go into a meeting is like one leg, but I still have to customize the legs to my personality and what works for me.

Exactly. It's like in a lifelong process for me. You mentioned, and Jodi reiterated this as well, that you have like the healing circle journey as one leg. Exactly. Exactly. You have you're starting to formulate like a strong support group around you as well.  What are some other parts of that spiderweb now that you have several years of sobriety?

And the other question I have is, was relapse ever a part of your journey after treatment? 

Yeah after I did the whole Delico and Crossroads thing,  I I like really did everything they to a T, like in the AA, they,  Everything that they wanted me to do, I did, right? I was like, almost like their poster child.

Cause I was just like 

You're on the brochure. Yeah. I 

did all the steps and I went to all the meetings. I even started chairing meetings. Nice, yeah. And it was actually at one of those meetings where my husband, or my ex husband now, saw me for the first time. I was celebrating my two year sobriety, I think, and so I opened the meeting and then I told my story there.

 But I don't know when exactly.  It happened, I think it's just getting into a relationship.  Those darn relationships. No, I'm just kidding. I got into a relationship with this guy that I met through Crossroads. We were trying to grow together as a sober couple, right?

But then  I decided that I didn't really want to be sober anymore. I was missing that party life, right? Because I  reconnected with some other people who I thought were my friends. And I just  really missed that part, and I just basically said, you know what I'm going for it. And I jumped off my AA wagon.

And I just went right back into the whole party mode. And he followed me and we just, I just went through it all together and that whole relationship, it was it was a beautiful relationship, as a sober couple. But when we  started drinking and stuff, it just it got really abusive, like to the point where  like he almost killed me a couple of times and I just, I had to break free from that.

Cause.  I think it was like,  what I would like to call I think it was like abused woman syndrome, because I was stuck in it I just kept going back, and  I was stuck in that cycle, and it was actually my ex husband at the time who  helped me break free from that because he. 

He was the friend that I needed when I was trying to get away from that.  Because he was friends with both of us, right? Gotcha.  So he just  took me away from that and showed me something else. And that's how my relationship with him started. But then, we were also like drinking and stuff too. And I was bringing crap from that relationship into that.

But then when was always like make a breakup with him, for the longest time until all of a sudden I got pregnant and I was like, ah, shit, like I can't leave him now. My kid needs a dad.  It's but then. It was like as if everything just shifted after that, because I was struggling, I don't know if I want to be sober.

I like my booze again, but then when I went to the booze, it was like, I picked up exactly where I left off nothing changed. It was the same.  Same shit. I was like, what the hell? But then, yeah, when my son was born, like everything just changed. Like I didn't even care about any of that anymore because it all became about, this little person.

I need to give him the best life I can possibly.  Give, my parents weren't able to give me what I needed when I was growing up, because of whatever they went through.  And being in my recovery and meeting all these people through all these different resources that I accessed. It helped shape me and mold me and it taught me a lot of things about even who my parents were like the Sixties Scoop and residential school, like I met a lot of people who shared things with me and it helped me understand.

Who my parents were and why they were the way they were. So I didn't feel like so much hatred anymore and pain and rage. Like I was able to heal  and say, Mom, it's okay.  I know you're doing your best. I love you. And it's easier for me to be more patient and tolerant to her now that I have this whole understanding, right?

I get it. That understanding is something that we've also talked about on this show, AAC. When people understand the connection between the residential schools and the genocide that took place, and the addiction issues that followed, and that we're still seeing here, with that intergenerational trauma.

It makes things a whole lot more understandable. You can see why people are struggling the way that they're struggling, 

yeah. 

And it makes a lot of sense. But there's still so many people in society who can't make that connection or refuse to make that connection between what we're seeing play out today in the form of addictions and broken families and broken people.

And what happened at the residential schools but it's real and that's what we're seeing now is the residual effects. And, you've gone ahead and broken that cycle, which is amazing, because now you've set an incredible example as a role model for your kids. 



And the hope is that they'll be healthy and and continue to to heal for their kids and grandkids moving forward.

I just wanted to know we were talking a little bit about your relapse there. How long did that go on for? Was that years? Was that months? 

It was a few years. 

Years, eh? Yeah. Because after the 

whole AA career thing. 

Yeah. So you went back to drinking for years after you had like a real good stint of sobriety and you were doing quite well for yourself.

And then you did relapse and that went on for a while. And then, but when you had your, when you had your first baby though, like that was it. That was it. And there was, like, you've been sober ever since then. Yep. That's incredible. My 

son is 11 years old now and I've been sober over 12 years.

That's 

incredible. Amazing. That is so amazing, so it really it really was the kids that, that, that solidified that in your mind that, you know what I want to live a sober, healthy life and be a positive role model for my family. 

Yeah.  

That's incredible. Yeah, and it's almost we look for purpose and direction in life and all of a sudden this baby is born, 11 year old son now.

 Like, you didn't even have to look for it. It was right there. 



It's magical and it's, I just want to,  congratulate you on your time. 

Because that is real incredible purpose. Like some people are looking so hard for purpose that they forget that something like being a parent and being a mom or dad, like that is purpose in itself.

And there's, it's so important for us to be a positive role models and set that positive example for our kids, whether it's our own kids or our nieces and nephews. So that's real purpose, and I think some people, like it's so obvious, but some people just look over that, maybe it is because it's so obvious they're looking for some sort of deeper purpose or meaning, but being a healthy sober parent is real purpose and it's so important because it sets the stage for our young ones, moving forward.

Yeah.  Back to the the spiderweb itself, now that, you know, with 12 years of sobriety and you have, I know you have one son,  how have you tweaked up to that spiderweb to what works for you today? What does that kind of look like?

I just I don't really go to AA anymore. But  I do do you call that? Try and help other people who I see that are, like, struggling and stuff. And  I think I do that best by just sharing, what I went through. Sharing whatever resources that I had access, Because I remember when I left home, being that angry young kid, right?

I was just like, there's nothing here for me, but I feel like there's something out there. I need to find it, whatever it is.  And Back then I was 18 and now sitting here at 38, I'm like, I feel like I found it, like whatever it was that I was looking for when I was 18, I feel like I found it, and now I just want to share that with people.

Amazing, 

yeah. I have a few more questions left and  one of the questions I want to ask  you mentioned something about change in a community, at a community level. What would the ideal change look like for you in your community when it comes to a battling addiction or dealing with trauma? 

It's so remote. A lot of folks that live in cities don't even realize that they're flying communities. You can access it by road during certain months of the year when it lands frozen. But what does change look like for you at the community level? 

I always thought that, that's something that I always thought about. 

And I think bringing the culture home would really, make a difference there. If people start getting exposed to sweat lodges and just  drumming and, all forms of, That kind of healing, because that's something that my grandmother expressed to me, that we used to do that back in the day, back in her day, she remembers that  they did practice that way of life, before the Mennonites came, she said. And now it's very I don't know Christianized, 

gotcha. 

Yeah. 

If I could just comment on that, too, and that's something else that that we've discussed on past episodes, and I believe that to be incredibly true, I think a lot of my Anishinabek brothers and sisters, part of the reason that they're struggling is because they they've lost their identity not by any fault of their own, but through the residential schools and what happened and I feel like a lot of my friends feel.

emptiness and they don't know who they are because they've lost that connection between their spirituality and the way of life as their ancestors knew it. But what I would say is I agree with you wholeheartedly, Leona, on what you said about bringing that culture back to the people. I think that's such a key important point.

Because what I have seen with my Anishinabek brothers and sisters who have been successful in beating their addictions and getting back to a healthy way of life is that reconnect with their own culture, that reconnect with their own spirituality and their own language.

Because and to me that just makes so much sense looking at it, the struggle and the problems come from, the disconnect from those things, but the solution would be the opposite of that. It would be to reconnect to those things. So I think you're bang on and I think that that, that return to spirituality and culture and language is just so important on healing journeys for Anishinabek folks.

So thank you for sharing that. 

If you can give advice to your 11 year old self if you can send her a message, you're back in the community, what would that look like? What would that message be? 

Just keep moving forward, one step at a time, every day is always, I tell that to a lot of people who I see are struggling, it might hurt a lot right now, like it might feel like things are really hopeless. There's no way out.\ You just, it's so easy just to give up.

It's so easy to stay in your negativity because it's like, it's just comfortable there, right? Because it seems like when there's anything worth fighting for, it's like you really have to put a fight into it, right? Even just changing your way of thinking it's constant struggle, but  once you develop that new way of thinking and doing things, it just gets easier. 

And when when you share it with other people, it just, it  I don't know.  It just makes it  worth it. It's all worth it.

Definitely, there is power in sharing.  There's people out there. there that are also on a similar journey to yours. I have years of sobriety.

You have years of sobriety. If you can reach out and send a text message to someone that's on that journey of healing, self realization, self identity awareness, if you could send a text message to that group today, what would that message be? Under 10 words or less.  

I'll just tell them that I'll probably send them the serenity prayer. 

More than 10 words, but it works. We'll take it.  

There is a lot of truth in that serenity prayer, right? For 

sure.  

I used that a lot when I was going through my hard times, cause I had a hard time accepting things as they were.  And I had to find that courage, to break. Through whatever it is that I was stuck in.

That courage to  accept things  as they were, but to know the difference, between whatever it is that you're having a hard time accepting  and finding things that, I don't know, just totally break, you can break free from that.

Thank you. I don't have anything else to add. Do you have anything else that you would like to share with us today before we close down this conversation?

And to you too, Jody

not for me. I really enjoyed that conversation. That was just awesome. And I'm really excited to hear what this this podcast sounds like when it's played back. But yeah. Yeah, I'd just like to thank both you guys, AC, thanks for hosting and Leona, thanks for bringing your incredible story here and also thank you for your ongoing support for the Health of the Moon project, I know you're here almost every single karaoke night, belting out tunes there on stage and I appreciate it, and I know you're talking about this project in the community too yeah, just thanks to both you guys. 

Do you have anything else to add, Leona? 

Just Keep pursuing whatever it is that, I know not everyone probably has that vision quest, but that's something that's big for me. It's something that I'm still pursuing even to this day. And it just I think  having something, that's born from, struggle and that you want to eventually grow into, like that, I think everybody needs to find that so they just keep, they don't stop fighting, they just keep pushing forward for it.

That's a great message. Phenomenal. Yeah. Leona thank you so much for coming in today. We both appreciate your time. Yeah, 100%. And it's and thank you for sharing your story. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right, and  we'll see everyone next week. Okay, bye guys. Thanks a lot.

Take care.