Yeah, there was a time when warning labels were working on alcohol bottles and then they were just stripped away. Like they were just taken away.

You're listening to rat race stories of addiction and recovery. With your host, Jody and a Z.

 Hey, what's going on Jody? , we're here at a Sunday morning in Thunder Bay, Ontario. The sun is out, but it's extremely cold. It's like, what, 

minus 20 today? Yeah. Some of the coldest weather we've had so far this winter, like after a really mild start to winter in December, they're like really mild. We're finally in a bit of a mini deep freeze here in Thunder Bay, but the sun is shining and from in here. 

It's a bit deceiving because it looks like it's it could be really mild out there but it's not, it's it's definitely cold. Need that big park it today, buddy. 

Yeah, , sure do, eh? Yeah. And I'm looking at photos on my friend's socials back in Western Canada and same thing. 

 They got a lakeside view, but it's extremely 

cold outside. Yeah, no doubt. I think I saw that it was minus 50 with a windchill in Calgary a couple of days ago there, which is just, just wild. I mean, that's cold. And even there, like they had that really mild start to the winter, eh, but, uh, winter is here with a vengeance a few weeks late but it's here.

Yeah. 

Yeah. You know, one thing I remember it's bringing back some memories when I used to smoke cigarettes and I used to, no matter how cold it was and no matter what part of the world I was in, it could be very well like minus 40 degrees Celsius or minus 60 with windchill or minus 20. I'd always. So, uh, you know,  

I was addicted to cigarettes for a really long time 

and yeah, I didn't really like the idea of smoking inside and it didn't matter how cold it was outside. You know, you'd be out there literally minus 35, minus 40, your fingers are ready to burn. Fall off because they're so freaking cold, but uh, you're out there smoking, so I can totally relate.

I can totally relate. You know, interestingly enough too with cigarettes, eh I think a lot of people forget about that as not forget about it as an addiction, but they sort of like downplay it sometimes. But man, like it was hard for me to quit nicotine. I dunno how it was for you, but, uh, when it came to cigarettes I relapsed a whole bunch of times before I was finally successful in, uh, in getting those out of my life. 

I 

was the same way  to me like, I love it. I still love the smell of it and I love the taste of it. I wish it was good for me, but it's not. And, um to me with alcohol, I didn't have my cognitive like ability. I would check out, become silent. Whereas with cigarettes, yeah, I'm still killing myself.

But I always had this and that's how I justified being  it's okay to smoke as long as I'm not drinking. But both of them, you know, one's killing you, they're both killing me but one doesn't make me look like either.  Talking to a wall,  to others, or I'm completely belligerent and out of my mind.

Right, right, right. You know, I still have this, and I'm able to be mobile and function, 

you know? Yeah, well, smoking cigarettes for sure, but definitely they are killing you. I don't know I can only speak for myself, but I'm pretty happy to have that addiction in my past. There was a while there that I was smoking almost a pack a day.

That's gone back over two decades now, but yeah, cigarettes definitely had me. Nicotine  it had me for quite a while. Yeah, 

and like I, I worked in high school in British Columbia, uh, must've been between the years  of 2001 and 2004, I worked at a, a convenience store. And back then I didn't smoke, nor did I drink.

And  I remember the labels, first of all, cigarettes went from like 7 a pack to what they are now. 

It's insane. I think it's like,  you know, I think you're paying like 20 or 25 bucks a pack. I don't know how people can even afford it, man. That's insane. You 

know if you want an indication of inflation,  that's it right there.

No doubt. No doubt. The price clearly doubled, if not more in the last 15 years, you know? Yeah. But I remember something interesting started to happen with these, uh, cigarette packages, warning labels started to surface and you notice warning labels went from just words to graphics to being like, okay, now they have to tackle. 

Um, a percentage of the package, whether it's 40%,  50%, 70%, and,  you know,  I don't know too much about this whole process, but I'm just saying whoever the manufacturers are, they would get more creative when it came to branding their products. And,  I remember it got to a point where not only are you seeing the warning labels.

On health implications on the package, but you open it, you see a little card in there, you know, on quit now slash cessation avenues to take and I, I started to wonder what impact does that even have on people that are consuming cigarattes ? I remember working behind the till and people would be like, Hey, don't give me the, uh, packaging that has the picture of the kid on it.

Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.  And you just see like when you want your fix of smokes, you're like, I know what I want. I want it. I want my cigarette right now. You just, you tear open the pack and you don't even look at the awarding labels. You're just like taking out the cards in the garbage.

They go and boom, you got the cigarette, you know? 

I mean, I, I remember I hated seeing those pictures. Obviously. I don't think many people like seeing them who are smoking. Right. It,   bugged me to see them. And that was the same way. Like you'd get a pack with something really graphic on it.

And you'd just be like, I just rubbed you the wrong way, but. It didn't stop me from smoking them, you know what I mean? Like I'd look at it and go, ah, damn bro. And then I'd open it up and light up and smoke, I don't know. I think that those labels like, yeah, they maybe make people think, but that's the power of  some of these addictions and some of the products, you know, nicotine is a really addictive substance  and so is alcohol.

And I know for me I think a lot of people out there who are still using alcohol too, they like, we know that it's bad for us. We know that it causes problems in our lives, health problems, relationship problems, financial problems, work problems, like just a whole slew of problems, but we do it anyway.

You know, addicts are smart people.  I think a lot of times we're aware that things are ruining our lives, but we just we're. We're so stuck in that addiction and we're numbing out that we just don't care and do it anyway.

That's how it was for me anyhow. Yeah. 

And just adding to what you just mentioned, I've spoken to  some health professionals. And  you know, some, sometimes we sit down and we wonder like alcohol is one of the most like the one thing that. 

If we didn't legalize, it's one drug, it's essentially a drug because it's this ethanol we're replacing into our system and it's breaking down our cells, and it's doing other things to us. It's like making us these crazy beasts that I'm a huge believer without looking at stats that the rate of violence would go down  if this would, yeah, if alcohol wasn't in our system.

Of course it 

would. You know, I, I've said for a long, long time, a long time, Izzy, that, uh, alcohol is the gateway drug. I know that there was that campaign years ago that people were saying, you know, cannabis is the gateway drug. And listen, cannabis can be harmful too and we can be addicted to cannabis.

 Okay. But you know, when it comes to alcohol, alcohol is the real gateway drug. You know, for, for a lot of people, alcohol is the first drug that they come in contact with. And,  it's highly addictive. And a lot of times it puts us in scenarios where we come in contact with other drugs. 

Alcohol is so dangerous and it's so underestimated. It's like downplayed just how dangerous alcohol is and where it leads. And we see that all the time. Like it's so glorified in society. We see bars on every street corner. We see people like posting pictures of themselves drinking with friends.

And it's so normalized in our society today. And  a lot of people really underestimate just how dangerous alcohol is. Like it is absolutely 100 percent the gateway drug and it destroys people's lives. 

I'm with you and, uh, just relating to my own experiences, uh,  the other things I tried or the toxic things I, did or something I took.

It was always with alcohol being the gateway to that.  And a lot of my buddies I went to treatment with, same thing. If I look back at their stories, very similar scenarios that everything else just seemed like a good idea when alcohol was the 

primary. That's right. That's right.

And that's what I mean by it being the gateway drug. Like it, it puts us in situations and scenarios and takes us places where other things, uh, Are available, and it also distorts our ability to make good choices, we end up doing things that we might not do if we weren't consuming the alcohol first.

Right. So, uh, yeah, it's crazy. Like it's crazy to me that it's so normalized because it is so dangerous and it leads to so many problems in so many ways. And I mean now being sober and having that clarity and having  the hindsight to take a look back and see it like it's so clear to me, you know, and That's why I get so concerned when young people pick up the bottle, and they're just like, ah, it's just a couple of beers.

Why are you getting so concerned? It's just a couple of beers. They just don't understand how powerful that, that alcohol is and where it can potentially lead them. And it might not lead them there tomorrow, but it will lead them there, you know, and uh, it's, that's frightening to me, and I've got young people in my life, a niece and a nephew who are Not going to be immune to those things either and I worry about that because Society's made it where these young people are like It's okay.

Like, chill out, uncle. I'm just having a couple of beer, you know, and, but me, I know where that road leads because I've been on that road. I've been on that ride enough times to know where that goes, you know, and, uh, and that's terrifying to me. Definitely.  

I went to school in Halifax, Nova Scotia, and  their main street is a Spring Garden Road, I believe, if I got the name correctly.

And yeah, so Spring Garden, it was known as the street, first of all, there's a huge university influence downtown Halifax and  it's known to students and everyone else that street has the most number of bars slash pubs per capita in the country. And that's the first thing I was told about it. And that was the message I was spreading about it.

That's right. You know, and we see  university sports, professional sports like going out to concerts, festivals,, you can find booths, you can find these beer gardens, you know, everywhere  yes. And we see the commercials and everything we see in societies around all the good things alcohol might do to us.

Everyone's laughing, smiling, having a good time, but  the violence and the dark side is not nearly projected to the same level. Not at all. 

 It's absolutely glamorized. It's glamorized in media. It's glamorized on social media. It's glamorized and it's all fake, like I, I've seen the ugly side of alcohol.

So have you. And that's because we've lived it. But you know, in addition to living it, like  my whole career, I worked as a bartender, so I watched what alcohol did to people for over 30 years, man. I saw it destroy people. I saw it take so many people out over the course of my career.

And I know that dark and ugly side of alcohol. I know it so well and so intimately and it bothers me and it frustrates me that it's so glamorized to young people. Let me give you an example. When I first opened Howl at the Moon there last year I was invited to Lincoln University campus for their orientation event.

Okay.  During that orientation event, like people would set up different booths, just displaying different things. And I was asked to come and set up a booth with some information on how the moon as a dry, so we're alternative for students, right? Well, as it turned out right next to me, there was a guy set up and he was promoting, uh, one of the local breweries and brew pubs here in town, right?

So we're side by side, eh? And you know, it's so crazy because I'm just thinking to myself like, okay, here we are, right? And we've got all these young people here on campus and they're showing up and. And this guy's got a, the guy set up to me set up next to me with the brew pub there. He's got like a big sound system and he's got tunes.

He's got this game and he's throwing candy at people. And he's like, you know, we're hosting a huge party on Friday night and come out and drink with us. It's going to be so much fun. Right. And here I am like I'm like, how the moon, you know, and I've got like pictures and you're like,  yeah, exactly.

Standing there with my sober is sexy sign. Right. You know, and I'm just watching people  walk by me and they're going right to this guy who's like throwing candy at them and like, you know, come on out and party your ass off with us, and give me your money. Exactly. You know, and it just reiterated that for me, like I know how alcohol has that.

That effect in that lure and that appeal because it's been marketed that way,  it was like full circle for me to see that in real time, you know, like here I am trying to promote healthy living sober living because I know it's better and I know it's a good way to live your life because I've lived that other lifestyle.

I was that guy next to me who, who had that booth, you know, I, I lived that way for a long time and here I watch all these young people and they're walking right past the sober is sexy side and they're just going over and they're, like, where do I sign up  for the beer chugging contest, and it's I don't know, it just it's heartbreaking for me because a lot of these kids don't even realize where that path is going to lead.

Like fast forward five or 10 years, right? It's all fun and games while they're in school and they're in university, but then all of a sudden they start, like you and I have talked about in previous episodes, they start using alcohol and drugs as a crutch when they start having loss in their life or things start to go to shit in their lives, and they're drinking more and more.

So I'm looking at these kids and they're all young and happy and full of energy and I just know that alcohol is going to suck the life right out of some of them, you know, like I know it is and, uh, cause I can see it and I've seen it happen before and I know where that, again, where that road leads. I've been on that road, and it almost always leads to the same destination.

And, uh, you know, so it, it makes me sad for our young people that they're so excited about drinking and they're so excited about alcohol. And I think we need to do better as a society. And that's what I'm really trying to do with Health The Moon and with this podcast and working with you, is to encourage people to embrace that healthy life.

You know, that good life. This is how we're supposed to be living. We're supposed to have clarity and purpose, we're supposed to have real connection with people. We're supposed to live sober, healthy lives. That's how people are supposed to live.  That's normal, dumping beer and liquor down your throat every weekend.

That's not normal, but it's been normalized, and it's so crazy to me.  I'm totally 

With what you just said. Truly think as well that both at a country level and a local level we need to do more. And I don't know of countries out there,  what they're doing cause they know the research is out there on the health implications, okay.

And exposing  kids at a younger age. But I don't know what they've done to minimize that alcohol consumption. I know here in our country.  Not so much at a federal level, but let's say at a local provincial or territorial level,  there was this idea. And I think  the Yukon government, the government of Yukon  decided to implement warning labels on, uh, alcohol.

And this was before the pandemic. .  I wonder, because I have the conclusion here from the Journal of Studies on Alcohol and Drugs.  And, um, this journal published an article and they made reference to  the government in Yukon and what they did.

And so I'm going to read the conclusion out to you right now. Uh, it says, we found that the introduction of new AWLs, which stands for alcohol, uh, with labels.  Displayed on the containers of alcohol products sold in major Yukon liquor stores was associated with significantly reduced per capita alcohol consumption. 

The accumulating effect size over time can be interpreted as being consistent with the casual effect of the labeling intervention. Especially as an opposite change was observed for unlabeled products and no reductions were seen to two separate control regions within the outside Yukon where there were no changes in labeling practices.

The results are also broadly consistent with those from the self report survey data collected before, during, and after  So without going into details of the study and who  the cases were and all that, the one thing I got out of this is that, and I was relating this back to cigarettes, like, I do know some folks that have looked at packaging and be like, you know what?

I don't want my lungs to look like that. Oh, I have a baby in the house. I don't want them to be exposed to secondhand smoke. It just that thought process alone around cigarettes and branding bottles with alcohol, because a lot of people, like you said, we live in this utopia society where alcohol is okay.

Alcohol is healthy, not 

even just okay. It's 

encouraged, encouraged to have a good time, you know, and so. By now slapping a label on it, not again, not at the federal level, at a local territorial level, Yukon government decided to put these labels on and guess what? Hole in the old, it's actually working. I don't know if they've continued to do this.

 I was reading that there was some pushback around it  by suppliers, let's say, but all in all an approach like this does work because now we're saying, Hey.  It can be a good time, but hey, it can be toxic too, at the same time, you know?  

I agree with you and I say like hats off to the Yukon government for doing that.

I think that's amazing. And but I don't think it's enough, we need to be screaming from the rooftop about the dangers of alcohol. Like I think that label on those bottles should, should have a picture of the guy who's lost his family, who's sitting there, struggling because.

Everyone's, you know, walked out of his life because alcohol has just destroyed his social circle and he's lied to his family and he's just, he's losing everything. I think we need to scream from the rooftops the damage that alcohol does to people. Because Nobody seems to talk about that.

Nobody, it's completely the opposite. Like it's so glorified. Like we said it's you go on your social media feed and you just see, like somebody just relaxing, having a martini or a glass of wine, like, like you can't even relax without having a drink according to social media, you know?

I mean, that's how they want you to think about things, right?  It's all about selling product. I mean, it's all about money. Like  these beer and liquor companies are obviously. I have no interest in having these labels on their product. They don't want people to know  that alcohol can destroy your life.

But people deserve to know that. And they need to know that. And that's why I'm screaming it from the rooftops because it almost destroyed my life. And I've seen it destroy a whole lot of people's lives who I care about,  to the point where some of them aren't around anymore, and that's the message that we need to get out about alcohol.

And, I don't care who's going to ridicule me about that. Like I know what alcohol is, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be quiet about it either, and I think that more people need to speak out and share their stories about how alcohol really had a huge  adverse impact on their lives.

And we need to get the word out there for young people so they understand, so they know the real risks involved with taking that first drink. And letting that alcohol into your life and opening that door to alcohol. Because  like I said, it may not destroy you overnight, but we know where that road leads.

We know that. And I think young people deserve to have that information. They need to know that  alcohol can really cause major problems and issues in their lives.  And then they can make informed decisions about drinking  because God knows the propaganda machine about promoting alcohol and how wonderful it is hard at work every single day, everywhere I look.

So I think we need more people  to stand up and say, look, like this is poison. Like we're killing ourselves, we're killing our spirits, we're killing our families. You can have a great time.

You're a very cool person. Still if you don't drink, as a matter of fact, like you're even cooler, in my opinion, like this whole, uh. big nostalgia of, like you're a nerd or you're not cool if you're not drinking, and we need to throw that narrative out the door.

Like, I'm tired of it because  sober is amazing. It's incredible. We have real purpose. We have clarity. We're able to accomplish things in our lives. Alcohol and drugs were holding me back, bro. That's the truth. And they were causing a lot of damage in my life. And, uh, I think that's the message that we need to get out to people. 

Yeah. 

  Yeah, just warning labels, like some of these read Hey, alcohol may increase the risk of cancer, and so there's definitely messaging on these labels. But I have a feeling like there should be more stringent or aggressive messaging.

What do you think? 

I totally agree. I think it's great that the warning about, the adverse health effects of alcohol, but I think we need like more graphic labels like alcohol can ruin your life or alcohol can. Ruin your relationship with your child or your wife might leave you if you drink too much You know like these are the warnings that I think people really need to know about because you know a lot of people just They downplay the health effects because they just don't care but maybe if they had an understanding that there are way broader Consequences, you know that it can really destroy your life and your family's life that you know Maybe they might take a little more heed ​

  And now that I'm looking further into it, apparently the labels We're pulled off the bottles and I, don't quote me on this. Shocker. Yeah. So there's a lot of industry pushback. Of course there is. And, and so without going into that sort of detail,  who knows what external factors were at play.

  And so, yeah, um, the very thing that was working, all of a sudden it's being stripped off bottles. That's my understanding. I have here. So 

of course, because you know, these special interest groups and the lobbyists for these beer and liquor companies, they don't want people to understand that the dangers that are involved with alcohol, because if people truly understood the real damages and the real risks involved with alcohol, they might make smart decisions and choose not to use it.

You know? So obviously they want to brush that under the rug.  And that's really too bad because we're doing people a real disservice, like, when we're selling that  narrative to our young people that alcohol is fun and that you need it to have a good time and you're not cool unless you do use it

like, and we need to stop with that. We really do. So, yeah. 

I'm with you. Um. Lots to take away from this discussion right now, and I don't know what the future looks like when it comes to warning labels in our country and what other countries are doing but having the discussion at tables like this and just being aware that, hey, yeah,  so many health risks associated with excessive consumption of alcohol and, going home and having a glass of wine.

Yeah, that's fine. If you can have a little bit, but I don't know a whole lot of folks that can just have one glass. Well, exactly. 

So I wish I could, but I  can't, I can't either, you know? And if there's a lot of people who are in denial, quite frankly, they're, they are alcoholics and they, maybe they, they drink, uh, a fancy wine or a fancy whiskey and, they don't think that they have a problem, but, uh, there's a lot of people who are alcoholics, you just don't acknowledge it.

You know what I mean? Anytime you open the door to alcohol,  there's a damn good chance it's going to take over in your life, you know? And, uh, I think even a lot of people who think they have it under control, like they're one tragedy or one major event in their life away from being full fledged alcoholics.

You know, I, I've seen that happen so many times. Casual drinkers, all of a sudden they have a loss in their life. That's a boom, you know, they're,  drinking every single day because They already know what alcohol is. They've consumed it maybe at a moderate rate leading up to the loss or the tragedy.

And then boom, they turn to it as a crutch. You know? And  like I said, man I know where this road goes. I've seen it too many times. I've seen it from behind the bar. I know how it goes. You know, even these people who come in and do have, a handful of drinks for the longest time, you know what happens when they have that loss in their life, all of a sudden they're ordering shots of tequila.

Right. You know, and then.  It just escalates from there and  I've seen it easy. I know how it goes, man. So  yeah, 

what you just said I had this discussion with my buddy over the Christmas holidays and 20 times he drinks out of a year, 18, 19 of them, he has it under control, but there's always the one off and he's on a track record of the last 10 years that it's very catastrophic.

That one off. Yep. So, yes, you have it under control and  he's in this delusion or this thought process that he can still drink because it's not a problem. Well, yeah, maybe it's not a problem. Maybe he's only drinking twice a month.  There's always one occasion in the year.

That screws it all up, not just for himself, but for this loved ones around him, you know, he's got a two baby girls and a wife. And I'm not getting into details on this, but there are pretty significant mess ups, you know, that are directly correlated with the influence of alcohol.

So I'm totally with  what you just said. 

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And  what happens when it turns into two and then five and then 10, right? Like alcohol is a real way of sneaking in and taking over. And, uh, sometimes that's a process, you know, sometimes that doesn't happen immediately. 

Guys, I'm being completely honest and truthful when I say this, like I worked behind bars for 30 years, I've seen casual drinkers get sucked in over and over again. And before they know it, they've lost their wife, they've lost their families, they've lost their jobs, in some situations they've lost their lives.

You're playing with fire when you're drinking alcohol. Like that's just it straight up. You know, you might think you have it under control. Trust me, you are not as powerful as alcohol. Alcohol can take you, it can take anyone, man. I've seen it. And I think people are making a huge mistake by underestimating just how dangerous and how powerful that product is.

Yeah. And um, Jody. Always a pleasure talking to you. 

That was a great conversation, AZ. Absolutely. And I'm really glad that we had a chance to sit down and talk about that. Likewise. Yeah, thanks a lot. 

You're welcome, and I'll see you next week. You bet.

 That was insight on how warning labels on bottles can actually reduce the overall consumption of alcohol.  As a reminder episodes are released every Thursday on Spotify, apple, or visit rat race, podcast.com.  Please feel free to leave us a review. Or follow subscribe to continue joining us on our journey. Thank you so much for listening and bye for now.